The first edition of Your Dude Band Sucks is a band from Tempe, AZ called Bro-Loaf. These dudes look like this:
I’m guessing the Ed Hardy/Affliction gear is “ironic,” but whatever – EMBARRASSING.
I was whining to Jess about how I never get to go to fests anymore because I live on the west coast now and everyone here likes complicated, sensitive music and not reunited hardcore bands and pop punk, and she mentioned a fest in September happening in San Diego called Awesome Fest. I was looking through the list of bands and saw one called Bro-Loaf, which kind of made me hope that I was about to discover the new best band ever. Bro-Loaf!
So, I guess their schtick is that they are ironic frat boy drunk punk that wear Affliction and funnel beers during shows. They sound like a shittier Murphy’s Law, if all Murphy’s Law ever did was keep re-recording the song Crucial Barbecue with different lyrics on each take. Here’s a link to their Myspace if you don’t want to take my word for it.
So why all the negativity? Because, even though it’s 2010 and I’m 30 years old, I still maintain that it’s not okay to make rape jokes, not even under the guise of irony. These fucks have the following quips on their MySpace page:
| Sounds Like | the rape baby of gwar and the oakland raiders |
| Record Label | date rape records |
We get it – you live in a college area surrounded by frat douchebags so you’re just making fun of them with your tagline that says “what?? you don’t wanna fuck me? fuckin skank,” but the problem here is that YOU ARE DUDES. You cannot make these jokes because you, sir, are a part of the oppressive force that keeps rape culture alive. Do you really think that a date rapist frat dude who comes to see your band play is going to understand your irony? Are the people who visit your MySpace who don’t automatically assume that everyone is constantly overdoing “irony” always going to know that this is a joke?
Also, here’s some “ironic” racism for you, if that wasn’t enough:
According to Bro-Loaf, this is “Taliban Tim – The Enemy.”
There might be a girl in this band, too, but that doesn’t change anything. See, I hate dude bands because you have to wade through a bunch of crap like this to find anything good. How’s that for turning the tables on guys who say the same exact thing about girl bands?
This is amazing (as are most of the posts on this blog). I hope you don’t mind if I add you to my blog’s Sisters in the Struggle link list!
of course we don’t mind! thanks for letting me know about your awesome blog, too!
Listen baby, we can appreciate your “Feminist Struggle”, but keep your yuppie mitts off our music scene. Broloaf is the battle cry that keeps socially concious, politically correct, militant neo-femmes like you at bay. Are we obviously ironic, yes…offensive, oh yeah…hilarious, hell yes. If you’re so cognitively evolved, you should have been able to challenge yourself by trashing a band that wasn’t so blatant, but you probably didn’t count on any of us being able to read or write.
We’re the champs, sweetheart, and if you decide to pull that giant stick out of your ass, relax, have a beer bong or two, and actually see a band play before you slam them in some little blog, then come on down to the Rogue East this Saturday when we play with Black Fag. If not, have fun listening to your Sleater-Kinney albums and we’ll see you in September.
Corey’s post is actually the sample page from Frat Brah Mad Libs. I hate to be a snitch but I don’t want him to get away with passing that brilliant writing off as his own original work.
If you want people to take rape seriously, but write about music, you should start by taking music seriously.
On Saturday May 22nd BRO-LOAF is playing live @ The Rogue Bar in Scottsdale, AZ. I think you “guys/grrls” should come down and protest.
An “intimate” evening with Los Angeles’ BLACK FAG the worlds most renown (and ummmm… happiest) BLACK FLAG tribute band. Supporting them on their whirl wind stop in lovely Scottsdale, AZ will be our very own “Jocks Of The Block” Arizona Hard Cores very own boy band BRO-LOAF. Seattles HOLLOWPOINTS, the West Sides BOMB THREAT (no they dont just listen to Korn out there) & the debut of The JERK OFFICERS will also test out their manhood. Be there or be square…
Just so anyone that is reading this “blog” knows I posted the next Bro-Loaf show and requested that you come down and stage a demonstration…whats the worst that could happen you would have to talk to people in public. Of course like all one sided media the offer / info was deleted…
Ooops, it appeared (after I called it out)…
this is an unfortunate article in that it will only serve to bolster the stereotype that feminists have no sense of humor.
clearly, you and the band are on the SAME SIDE. i am privileged to say that i’ve seen bro-loaf live and they are hilarious. they are making fun of frat assholes, not glorifying them. i don’t understand why irony is off limits…
and speaking of off limits, why is rape the ONE subject that is off limits for humor? seems rather arbitrary… certainly violence, war, starvation, racism, poverty, and disease have all caused some severe human suffering since the dawn of humanity, rape is not unique in that respect…or even the worst offender in the list! and yet an episode of south park or a sarah silverman stand-up special could easily include jokes about all of the above.
the minute you start making “rules” for comedy, you’re going to lose. just because you don’t like a joke doesn’t mean that plenty of liberal, intelligent, similarly-minded men AND women don’t find it hysterical.
i don’t mean to be confrontational, but i think you should reconsider your perspective on this band and maybe on humor in general.
what’s that line from “My Blue Heaven”? “everybody thinks they have a sense of humor, even people who don’t.”
nobody thinks they have a stick up their ass…especially people who do…
oh, wait! i forgot about the other “rule”!! they can’t make jokes about rape because they’re dudes…and yet you even point out that there’s a chick in the band…and then apparently that doesn’t matter?
so, wait…is it okay for girls to make rape jokes? or are they just unfunny as a whole? because if it’s not okay for girls either, then the follow-up rule about them being dudes is superfluous, no?
the idea that some people can make jokes and others can’t is just as prejudiced as saying that a woman can’t be a good supreme court justice. 100% double standard. it doesn’t matter what sex/race the band is, it matters who they are as people.
and trust me: there are no frat boys at their shows… that’s an interestingly unfounded assumption…
what a strange, imaginary, humorless, prejudiced world you live in…
okay, now i AM being confrontational. sorry.
(but seriously!!)
since you are all coming from some internet message board that is literally daring each other to post a link to the thread, allow me to do it for you. here it is. really, it only further proves just about every point i made. especially when you said i was a skank that should be date raped!
to the guy who posted an ad for the show – sorry, i wasn’t at the computer when you posted your advertisement, so i could not hit “approve” as quickly as you wanted to see your words in all their glory.
so, have fun with your “comment war” or whatever you call it. xoxo, the manhater.
Nikki FTW. I’m sure Christian Audiger (or however you spell it) is totally stoked that you guys spent $800 on his clothes to make an ironic point.
Extra comedic note: if your “comedic irony” isn’t obvious, then you are failing epically.
Dear scene dudes,
I think it’s ironic that you’re going on about the fact that N. isn’t nuanced enough or whatever to have a “real dialogue” about the stuff she discusses in her post on BL, and yet you aren’t willing to understand that a lot of what she’s talking about is related to male and white privilege, and how their particular “parody” isn’t actually doing much beyond perpetuating said privilege and a whole lot of racist/sexist bullshit.
And before you get all defensive and say, “But I’M NOT PRIVILEGED AND HERE’S WHY”: even if you don’t mean to or want to benefit from your privilege, by virtue of being a dude, you are privileged. (If “privilege” is a new concept to you, I don’t have the time to spell it out, but you should read some Tim Wise or, at the very least, skim this article.) In light of your privilege, it’s kind of fucked up that you should feel entitled to joke about rape.
A couple of other points: Just because BL has a woman in the band doesn’t mean that they can’t be sexist. (Ever heard of Phyllis Schlafly?) Also, how is making a joke about “rape babies” parody, or intended to skewer frat guys? (Hint: it’s not–it’s meant to make a joke at the collective expense of raped women.)
I don’t think that Nikki is saying that irony is off limits or unappreciated. I think that she’d (and I KNOW that I) would just prefer to see folks who take on touchy subjects like rape and racism do it in a much more intelligent, well-executed manner.
xx S
PS: Nikki, Keep up the good work. This is an awesome blog, and it’s good that SOMEONE is taking scene bros to task for their BS. xx S
Wait, wait, wait…you all made very valid points, but could you PLEASE have the decency to leave Christian Audiger (or however you spell it) out of this!?
first off i would like to thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to write about us. second if you think we spend $800 on some clothes then you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. third……… and just for clarification, we actually have an anti-rape song cause we don’t rape anyone. If you take a look the page it says that we are rape babies, so it is we that are the victims here. Fourth, we are very, very pro USA, but we are absolutely not racist. We have a mixture of African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Italian-Americans, Jewish-Americans and American-Americans that weave the Banner of BroLoaf. Finally point number five we are going to model a character after you, a fem-nazi
(dare i say lesbian? hey you like apples I like apples)
hater of all things loaf,
complete with song and dance number.
Thanks for the inspiration sweetheart…………
Ps we already have some girls in the band but you are more than welcome onstage to join in on the fun……if you can pull that giant stick out of your ass.
Thanks again for the wonderful article and keep up the work
but get your own damn pictures cause that shit is copywrite protected!
- Ben Brah
just like i thought…….whats the deal why won’t you post my comments ?
it’s cause your the fucking asshole here………..not us.
we aren’t “dudes that are being shitty to women”.
The Loaf loves the ladies…………even the ones that don’t fucking get the joke.
thanks again for giving me some great shit to laugh at……….
- Ben Brah
Gosh your shows must be fun…
Blah blah blah…. shut up stupid lesbians.
Lighten up, its not rape, it’s “surprise sex”…. and who doesn’t like surprises?
it’s such a bummer that certain branches of feminism allow for this kind of circular and hypocritical logic. i guess if you read enough andrea dworkin eventually you find a way to justify any sort of anti-male sentiment you want, regardless of whether it makes any actual sense or, more importantly, is the least bit productive in moving us towards an equal society.
msjacks, the irony is SO CLEARLY IN-YOUR-FACE OBVIOUS. if any of bro-loaf’s detractors had bothered to attend their show last night you would have seen it (and probably laughed at least a little bit). but you don’t even have to attend the show, because even nikki herself picked up on the irony immediately from their myspace page!!!! she says so herself!!! so i guess they’re doing it right after all?
and stacy, please, for the love of the FSM, you can’t just throw out “white male privilege” and consider your argument sound. how is the band perpetuating racism/sexism exactly? if it was a band of all black women doing the same routine, would that be acceptable? and if so, aren’t you then suggesting that it IS in fact sex and race that are determining factors in our society as opposed to what’s inside each person? if it’s possible for phyllis schlafly to be anti-feminist, isn’t it equally possible for the bro-loaf guys to be pro-feminist?
and also stacy, you’re re-wording nikki’s argument to make it more reasonable. she did not say that she’d prefer to see subjects like rape handled in a more careful manner. she said, in BOLD letters:
“it is not okay to make rape jokes, even under the guise of irony.”
period. no equivocation. no room for re-interpretation. if she’d like to take that statement back, i welcome her to do so. but you can’t do it for her. and if you disagree with her, you should speak up. you shouldn’t just automatically defend her because she’s a woman and her detractors are likely males.
the interesting reality here is that we’re all on the same side. i think if you asked any member of bro-loaf and any of the people who have commented on this story thus far, we would all say that a society in which men and women are true equals is something that we want.
but we’re not going to get there with arbitrary rules about who can/can’t make certain jokes or by invoking the “privilege” argument as a trump card to denounce pretty much anything a white male does, regardless of context. all you’re doing is putting up more walls, when really we should all be smashing them down.
@calmdown I must have missed Nikki’s argument that “no rape jokes are ever funny,” something that I’d disagree with because I think that folks like Ms. Silverman, who someone up above (maybe you?) invoked before, do (at least sometimes) handle it in a clever and nuanced way. so I guess we would have different opinions on that front.
the difference is between my disagreeing with Nikki and the way that you dudes (and the folks over on your message board) are going about disagreeing with her is that there is no actual, respectful dialogue going on.
if you guys and BL and their fans are so “feminist,” why didn’t anyone tell that dude who said N should be date raped to STFU?
and I am all about breaking down walls, for the record, but I think that the “breaking down” can’t even begin until privilege is acknowledged. period.
also, I don’t think that if BL were a band full of women of color, or whatever, that it would be any more feminist or funnier. you’re missing the point. which is that BL is pulling this “irony” and “parody” off realllllllllllly badly–they’re just mimicking the behaviors of the frat jocks they’re supposed to be condemning, and when their fans act like TOTAL ASSHOLES and call for someone to be raped–joking or not–they don’t call them on it. and neither have any of you.
“if you guys and BL and their fans are so “feminist,” why didn’t anyone tell that dude who said N should be date raped to STFU?”
I think that was actually a woman that wrote that. but I didn’t want to hold the door open for you and be accused of being called chauvinist.
Hi guys. OOps? What’s going on here? Why are you so choosy about what gets posted here, Nikki? There’s been a lot of things deleted that were a lot more substantial than some that weren’t. What’s the beef, dawg?
hi! this is the last time i’ll mention this, but since you guys don’t like to read what i say i’ll tell you again: i don’t sit at the computer all day, every day, so i do not have the ability to hit “approve” on all comments immediately. some get through the spam filter, some are held at the gate. that’s how it works. so, carry on with your banter. xo nikki
Oh, and it’s punk rock. There’s nothing “well-executed” or “intelligent” about it. Lighten up! Just like calmdown said, we’re all on the same side!
Well…maybe not… I certainly don’t want to be on the same side as a slew of people whose values are so distorted that they have forgotten how to take a joke.
raperaperaperaperaperaperape
My name is Lise. I am a female. I consider myself a feminist. I am a philosophy major with a concentration on aesthetics. My step-dad is black and my brother and sisters are Mexican. I myself am white but grew up poor and in bad neighborhoods rife with gang activity. Just a little back ground to let you know who you will be judging.
I’m the one who said that the person who wrote the blog should be date raped. I did it within the context of her highly reactionary criticism of the band Bro-Loaf. I did not just pull it from the top of my diseased mind. It was in direct reference to an ironic joke that the band had made on their page. Why did I make it? Because if she was hysterical about reading the words, I was curious to see what the reaction would be if the words were made in reference to her.
Not that you care, but here’s where I stand on humor; Everything is funny. Every goddamn thing ever, in the history of the Universe is ripe for the comedy picking…unless it’s happened to you. Then we take umbrage! This is a psychological response known as self centered thinking. Aids? Funny. Cancer? Funny. Abortion? Funny. All of these are dark, scary things that can be made light by humor. I joke about rape to diminish my fear of it.
Oh and personally? I have been raped. As a an actual, factual rape survivor I find you and your friends fixation on the word to be somewhat alarming. It’s because of people like you that real rape victims don’t feel as though they will be take seriously. I made an off-color comment on a message board and you and your friends have latched onto it as if I were an extremist who made a call for Jihad on you. Don’t flatter yourself, your views were in no way controversial or challenging, just limp and poorly written.
Quit perpetuating the idea of woman as constantly threatened victim. If you find threats to your womanhood to be found everywhere, you might want to get checked for mental illness ala The Yellow Wallpaper but please quit placing yourself in the role of actual threatened female. I think a lot of Sudanese and hell, even lots of American women would be cool with that.
“and when their fans act like TOTAL ASSHOLES and call for someone to be raped–joking or not–they don’t call them on it. and neither have any of you.”
“if you guys and BL and their fans are so “feminist,” why didn’t anyone tell that dude who said N should be date raped to STFU?”
Also, why are you calling for a bunch of guys (your words. I’m assuming you think all BL fans are male as you assigned me the male gender) to ride to the rescue of this poor, defenseless female?
Please know I ask this in a tone dripping with sarcasm, which is also a device used to convey humor, along with irony.
Feminist, my ass.
Lise,
Thank you for your comments. I am unsure of how your credentials of being a white woman who is close to people of color ties into a discussion of rape, but I will simply comment on the subject at hand and the numerous direct attacks you have made on my person.
As one woman who is a survivor of rape to another, I am sure you know how violating it feels. It also does not feel good to be told (from anyone, no matter their gender) that I should be raped again. I would hope that rather than make rape jokes because they do not affect you on an emotional level personally, you would take into consideration the numerous women who are offended by jokes about such a terrible event in their lives and refrain from belittling their feelings about it. Your feelings on the matter do not match the feelings of all women – thus, it would be a safer assumption to say that rather than say things that may trigger a million women who have been raped and still are not at the point where they feel comfortable joking about it, we should respect women who heal in different ways in different time-frames.
Your fear of rape is real – however, so is mine. We have different approaches of how we deal with our fears, and I really believe that this should be okay. While you believe it is okay for men to joke about slapping and raping women (and even making these jokes yourself), I believe that some things should not be joked about because it perpetuates a rape culture. The fact is, women ARE constantly threatened. I understand that you are incredibly angry that I would be upset by a rape joke, but I really hope that you could try to think of it from other perspectives. I have read your thoughtful response and heard you out and understand (as much as I possibly could, being that I don’t know you or anything about you) that your position differs from mine, but personal attacks on me for my position (telling me I should be date raped, joke or not) or that other women who thought you were a man (most likely because of the other commenters) isn’t feminist is reactionary (just like my post about Bro-Loaf, which definitely seems to have touched a nerve).
I still stand behind what I said about rape jokes not being okay. I don’t even think Sarah Silverman or whoever should be making these jokes. These are my beliefs, and I never expect absolutely everyone to agree with everything I believe in. I am glad that people are reading these thoughts, though, and carrying on a conversation. While many of us don’t agree with each other, we’re talking about these things and that’s an important step in the right direction.
xoxo,
nikki
“I would hope that rather than make rape jokes because they do not affect you on an emotional level personally…”
Please point out to me where I said that in my response. I’m also not ‘incredibly angry” that were offended by a rape joke. I think it’s obvious that I’m angry that women like you perpetuate the idea of rape survivor as social victim over and over again. Making bad, poorly timed jokes are an indicator of my bad, poorly timed sense of humor. They are not, however, proof that I feel nothing about rape jokes or that I find it entertaining to belittle the feelings of others. I’m not responsible for the feelings you still carry with you from your attack, sorry. You were responding not to the actual, sexual assault made on you but rather to a word that I said in reference to you that you feel sensitive about. I don’t. I choose to not let words like that have power over me and I’m sorry that you’re not past that yet. I’m not suggesting you have to (get past it) because that would suggest flippancy. What I am saying is that by getting past the power of the word itself or jokes made about it, I have not allowed fear to rule my life and that is a wonderful place to be. I wish that for you someday, I really do.
Along the same lines, I sure as hell would NEVER assign those feelings of fear that I felt about that word to a gaggle of men who had nothing to do with what happened to me in the first place and who don’t actively condone the action (of rape) in their personal lives in any way. These are men who have girlfriends, fiances, sisters, mothers and female friends. Do you think that the dozens of us who make up the estrogen factor in their lives wouldn’t have taken them to task for the bullshit you accuse them of if they were really that way?
Hello Lise,
Your response to my blog post on the message board you post to says “That skank needs to be date raped.” To me, that is a hostile choice of words, which typically translates into being “angry.” If this was not said in anger, great – but I do think it’s important that we choose our words appropriately for given situations – clearly, I am a woman who does not agree that making rape jokes is a constructive way to fight rape… I would have hoped for a different type of response, but it’s clear that I won’t get that.
I think something important to take from this dialogue is that women deal the subject of rape differently. To dismiss the way one woman feels about rape because it’s not the way you feel about rape is probably not the right route. I did not write about Bro-Loaf’s rape jokes because of my own attack – I wrote about these jokes because I believe there are more constructive ways to combat a rape culture than by pretending to perpetuate it – I believe the irony has the potential to come real, in addition to having a high potential to be mistranslated by rapist fucks who will not “get” the joke. I think we can agree that we are both anti-rape and anti-rapist, however, when we make these jokes publicly they can be consumed by ALL people, not just those who are anti-rape. People still rape, and people are still raped. I have known rapists to make rape jokes. These are the points I was attempting to make.
I am sure there are women in these peoples’ lives, but I (unlike you) do not know them or any of these women personally. All I have to go on is rape jokes here, and you clearly have more personal experience with them. I hope that you can understand how jokes alone can shape someone’s impression/opinion.
It’s not a matter of me not getting some joke – it’s a matter of me disagreeing with the appropriateness of a joke. I don’t think any amount of dialogue between the two of us is going to change my perception of how appropriate it is to make rape jokes, but as I mentioned before – I appreciate your comments and your words. I assure you I’m not entirely humorless – I have strong opinions on the perpetuation of rape culture and I stand by them. I appreciate that you also have strong opinions on rape culture.
As a humorless lesbian, I am just going to get back to writing about music made by women and queers. Thanks again for the interesting dialogue.
xoxo
nikki
lise, you rule.
nikki, i’m still left wondering why rape jokes are not okay ever at all in any context, but jokes about all other subjects ARE okay.
unless there are more “off limits” humor subjects that you’re not mentioning…?
if i’m reading you right in your last post, you are actually suggesting that guy watching a bro-loaf show might be inspired to rape someone? or will be emboldened to do so? i don’t really think that computes with psychological science, but maybe i’m just ignorant… i think rape comes from a much deeper place than watching a dude w/ an ironic spray tan pretend to do lines of fake coke with another dude…
and side note: broloaf didn’t actually make any rape jokes at their show that i noticed… is all this hubub really about a line on their myspace page? again, some research might be appropriate next time you accuse a band of perpetuating a rape culture. (i might even argue that such reckless accusations are MORE of a detriment to rape being prosecuted than bro-loaf’s antics because when people repeatedly get bent out of shape about such small things, it makes it hard to take them seriously when it really counts…but i’ve already digressed too much.)
but back to my point: can you explain the rules of comedy? i’m not trying to be a dick, i just really want to understand what is/isn’t off limits in your mind. clearly rape jokes are not okay, period. so what about cancer jokes? 9/11 jokes? holocaust jokes? AIDS jokes? black jokes? spousal abuse jokes? mental illness jokes?
where are the lines drawn for you and why?
@stacy: you say the difference is that “we” are attacking nikki and not engaging in a respectful dialogue?
a.) i’m not a part of any group…don’t discredit my points (many of which have yet to be addressed) by lumping me in with someone else. that’s almost as bad as lumping all males into a Rape Culture. i guess some people found this post via a messageboard, i found it via a totally unrelated facebook post. the people upset with nikki’s post aren’t an organized group, we’re just all unified against her misplaced rage and total lack of a sense of humor.
b.) NIKKI set the tone of this discussion. look at the title!! “your dude band sucks”?? where exactly is the discussion supposed to go from there? she calls their music shitty, calls them “fucks” and accuses them of oppressing women and supporting Rape Culture by virtue of their sex organs. was she really trying to start a respectful discussion that way? stop defending her just ’cause she’s a chick.
i’m in fact NOT missing the point, you’re reinventing it. nikki has every right to dislike the band and to suggest they’re missing the mark with their irony if that’s her opinion. but she doesn’t have the right to declare the “rules” of comedy for the rest of us, and she doesn’t have the right to suggest that all males are automatically supporting a Rape Culture with purely theoretical evidence to back her up (a good amount of which blew up in her face with lise’s posts).
and i can acknowledge that as a white male i enjoy a lot of socio-economic fringe benefits, but i don’t think that means i am automatically disqualified from empathizing with other groups and, by extension, being able to make politically incorrect jokes about them.
the road of privilege determining who can/can’t say/do certain things runs in the exact opposite direction of the road to equality. and by suggesting otherwise, you are engaging in sexism.
personally I prefer holocaust joke more than rape jokes.
hey Nikki,
I haven’t heard of these guys but I’m with you and Stacy. Not smart, not interesting, not funny, perpetuating cis male white hetero abled privilege. Keep doing what your doing.
you wacky bishes are boring…….
For me, the joke of Broloaf was so immediately obvious that even before they played one note for their first show, I was slapping myself on the head and saying “duh! Why hasn’t this been done before?!”. It’s the mark of a great idea.
It’s so clearly a parody that I didn’t even need to address it anymore. I just spent the rest of the set laughing about bros, and having wayyy more fun than expected.
Taking this band’s “message” seriously is fucking laughable.
ladies, ladies, ladies. It’s clear that you secretly want to fuck the band. It’s okay, I do too. Unfortunately they will reject you like last weeks spoiled milk because your breath smells of rotten fish and the BO is way to offensive for a punk show.
OMG they joke about dumb ass frat boys getting pretty blondes with fake tits drunk and raping them. HMM… message to pretty blondes with fake titties— stay out of the situation and maybe one day too you’ll be able to find humor in the band.
As for me…
Shit’s tight
Hey, been a while since we’ve bandied titherings. I just wanted to mention that Broloaf is going on a mini-tour through California with a band called Black Fag. They’re another extremely offensive Black Flag tribute band. You should check them out: myspace.com/blackfag
I was really hoping that you would find/not find some humor in them because your opinions are really precious!
Love you!